Co-Director’s Interview with Anne-christine d’Adesky and Ann T. Rossetti on the Making of PILLS, PROFITS, PROTEST: CHRONICLE OF THE GLOBAL AIDS MOVEMENT.

Larin Sullivan: Ann how did you become involved in this project?

ATR: Initially Anne gave me a call one day and said, “Hey we're going to South Africa and we’re doing this stuff with these women and I want to document what were doing.” So I went along and tried to capture what was going on without even knowing myself about the epidemic and the history as she knew. [During the women’s conference] I would hang out and get to know the women and sit down with them and interview them.

LS: Had you been involved in ACTUP or any kind of activism before?

ATR: I was mostly focused in film.

LS: You’re known for shooting Rose Troche’s seminal dyke classic GO FISH and more recently Harry Dodge and Silas Howard’s groundbreaking buddy movie BY HOOK OR BY CROOK. How did you get your start?

ATR: I had and interest a long time ago. I went to school studying film after engineering school. It was my natural thing – cameras and lights, that’s what came down to for me, it wasn’t a hyperconscious decision. I just realized I wanted to be in the communicative arts. Something with a voice because I was looking at media with many different voices, none of them representing any voice I had and I realized the power of the media voice I wanted to make sure that somehow I had a had a hand in affecting what people hear and see. Media is such a powerful socializing tool – it’s basically the way we socialize the whole world.

LS: Do you consider yourself a queer filmmaker? Is that your main focus?

ATR: Not necessarily, I’m a queer who makes films. The queer community has been most supportive in giving me opportunities and allowing me to work on such projects as Go Fish and By Hook or By Crook. I do work in all media and gay and straight genres. [The gay genre] has the most freedom of voices.

LS: How was being co-director, cinematographer, producer and editor? Had you ever done a film from top to bottom like that?

ATR (laughing) No.

LS: How was it?

ATR: It was really intense (laugh)! The shooting is great. The editing is a lonely process on such a long project that has so much footage that you’ve worked on for so many years. And the producing aspect was a learning thing for me that requires things of me that I haven’t nurtured in my life, with having to deal with people on a different level. I find it difficult to do all hats because the producing and post-producing aspect is a little more difficult for me. Producing during production, submitting to festivals, or grant writing --that stuff is really hard.

LS: Did you get a lot of grants? Did you get any grants?

ATR: No! I was frustrated with the grant writing process. Some grants say, “Oh you made it to the second round but you didn’t get it, so reapply next session. So you reapply next session and they say, “Your credentials aren’t even good enough for you to apply, why are you bothering?” And I would say, “What do you mean? Last year we made it to the second round.” The stress of writing these things out and sending them out and the money wasn’t coming…. So I felt that we were making the project through our own resources and some private donations, instead of spending the time to write grants.

LS: How much did the film cost?

ATR: I don’t have hard figures. We made a budget one day that didn’t include labor. It was made on the cheap cheap -- $50,000, maybe. If you really pushed labor costs, double that. But with a couple of private donations and all of those plane tickets, and technical requirements… probably in that range.

LS: What was your philosophy of shooting and editing? I know there was so much material. You traveled to South Africa, Haiti, Brazil a couple times, then India, Uganda and the US. How did you know what to focus on in editing and shooting?

ATR: It was a project that was done very differently than how most films are made. Usually when you produce a film, you choose you subjects and you go prepare with them. We were traveling on the agenda of Anne writing these articles (for amfAR). We would get somewhere and usually there were these women’s organizations and conferences I was approaching it like, “What do we have here today, what’s going on, what do we have to offer for these people?” As she interviewed people, we would often ask if I could also videotape that interview. I would see if they were interested in participating in the film and other people they knew too. We went traveling with them and saw their villages or this and that.

LS: That is an interesting way to go about making a film – it’s like sub filmmaking – Anne-christine writing for non profit AIDS journals and using those opportunities to delve into the issue deeper and get access to people.

ATR: Yeah.

LS: That’s cool

ATR: And then the us stuff was a combination from getting footage from each other – you know like other activists who were out there, coordinating with them while they were shooting some multiple camera stuff on protest while I was working inside the united nations.

LS: How did you guys get access to the UN trials footage? It’s interesting to see bureaucracy at work and a great contrast against the activists, who at one point break into the UN AIDS conference. It’s amazing how you capture both sides of that moment.

ATR: I actually work there and patch that footage directly out to the networks.
I work in their television department. It’s a freelance job that I’ve had for years. I go back when they have GA sessions (General Assembly). And I was there for the full brunt of the UN AIDS conference [UN General Assembly Special Session / UNGASS, June 2001]. I was on the inside and Shanti was on the outside. There was a scene where there was a protest on the inside of the UN where the activists get kicked out. And I couldn’t get up and run out and capture what they were doing -- they were literally on the other side of the wall. I tried to send a friend of mine to inside to go do it, but he couldn’t get my camera working, he wasn’t familiar with that model. Shanti happened to be inside with them so she captured some.

LS: That is so cool! So you were able to purloin the footage of those trials from the UN to use in the film? Is it publicly available?

ATR: The UN footage is public domain; they send it up to the networks via news feed. News outfits take it off the feed and use it how they want. I was lucky I just was able to record whatever I wanted. I just recorded directly the feeds.

LS: You mentioned Renee Rosenthal. Who are the other filmmakers whose work you’re interested in? People you admire as peers or who you’d like to work with?

ATR: I don’t know specifically. I am pretty open to people who come with great ideas and seem to be productive.

LS: What are your personal goals for filmmaking?

ATR: I’d like to continue my work as a cinematographer and I also have interest in human justice issues and non-fiction/ documentary/live stuff. I’m trying to balance my career to be able to do both of this stuff and to extend my career from just shooting to be able to produce pieces in general.

LS: How was it working with Anne-christine, a first time director and someone so driven by her goals and work? An amazing trait -- but one I can imagine would be hard to focus her or something.

ATR: To a point the footage dictates the film. We talked a lot about structure – the piece evolved in a series of cuts. First there was a 15- minute cut and then there was a 30- minute and then there was a 60 -minute. In these progressions the story evolved. She kept a good line of knowing what her she was interested in and I tried to follow that and create a good structure. With all the things we witnessed and accomplished, it was difficult. But it was also difficult [with] her being on the West Coast and me in New York. Between Anne and Shanti [and me], the process was editing, and then consulting with them, then edit more and consult.

LS: How did the collective (Action=Life) function in the process of making the film?

ATR: It was general help. There was a loose group of people who helped at times and continue to help when needed, when requested. Times I’d be working with Cindra who would help facilitate interviews, or she was along on certain trips.

[Cindra Feuer is a member of the collective who freelances in the HIV/AIDS field. She was writing for POZ magazine at the time when the film was shooting. She provided technical assistance for field interviews.]

ATR: Megan McLemore came to Uganda; she’d help me with the technical work.

[Megan McLemore is a US lawyer and founding member of the Seattle-based Northwest AIDS Coalition of Treatment Activists /NCATA, which recently disbanded. She is working on international human rights and HIV issues.]

ATR: It’s really difficult to collectively make a film. The voice becomes narrower and narrower when you have to make democratic editing choices and whatnot.

LS: It’s interesting that you joined with Shanti. She was off making her own film in Brazil and you came together. That’s pretty rare in filmmaking, isn’t it?

ATR: Yes. Initially we met because we both shot film on two characters from South Africa. They were here in New York and I was hounding her – “I need that footage.” I am dying for more development on characters. It’s hard to do when you’re just visiting a country for a week or two and then you never get back there. It’s hard to choose that character and follow them, documenting like that. So she told me what she was doing and I invited her in to help me but together our 15-minute cut.
It was earlier in her filmmaking career, so I think she benefited by learning stuff from me on that level. She brought her intense intellectual background to it. She had a lot to bring to it on that level -- the intensity of her research in Brazil. She invited me to go with her and shoot the stuff she wanted for her film in Brazil .That’s how we kind of collaborated – she helped me with the initial editing process, then I went to Brazil and shot stuff for her film which then was also coverage that we incorporated into our film.

LS: So she made her own film too?

ATR: Yes it has much more to do about the history of Brazil evolved around the pharmaceutical industry.

LS: How’s distribution [of PPP]?

ATR: Most people love it. The response is great but often attendance at film festivals is not what you would want. AIDS film is not the most glamorous at a festival where I think people want more lighthearted fare.

LS: As a filmmaker, what advice do you offer other filmmakers who are making activist docs to get them out there? You guys directly distribute to other activists. Are there networks or resources to facilitate this?

ATR: Working through the networks of organizations. There’s a bit of gay content in the film but it’s not all gay content, [but] we’ve been screened at gay festivals. Then little by little other festivals hear about it and request it. Now we have a request from “In the Life” TV wants to do a piece on us. It’s a PBS gay news hour. They’re doing a series called “Reel to Reel” about filmmakers. [Editor’s Note: A PBS In the Life segment on Pills, Profits, Protest will air in September 2005]

LS: That’s great. What distributor are you talking to?

ATR: Outcast Films. This film is a good companion to a speaking tour and presentation along with Anne’s book [“Moving Mountains: The Race to Treat Global AIDS,” Verso, July 2004]. Ideally I wish I had money to translate it into local languages for the African women and such so that I could distribute in those realms -- as a tool and inspiration. We’ve had requests. The are economic limitations of doing that [but] I would love if American distribution could fund that distribution.

LS: Anne mentioned that you might collaborate on the Freedom March project this week. Or that she was thinking of it.

[Editor’s Note: The Campaign to End AIDS (C2EA), a new grassroots domestic US initiative, has organized a national campaign based on Martin Luther King’s 1968 Poor People’s Campaign and Freedom March. C2EA will send caravans of organizers across every state in America in September and gather in Washington, DC in early October for a National March and Rally. The campaign hopes to revitalize domestic activism and link to global advocacy.]

ATR: She proposed it – I find it to be huge and overwhelming. If I could I would. Working without financial resources is difficult and somehow we managed to do that with PPP but to undertake it again would be really hard for me at this point. If we had some way of financing it, it would be possible.

LS: Do you have any ideas for financing?

ATR: No (laughs) -- do you?

ATR: I’m also interested in working on women and poverty issues more directly related to AIDS. I always find the common denominator is poor women in the underdeveloped world. When we were back in Rwanda in April (2004) when Anne was starting up We-Actx *– these topics of women’s issues in general really tug at my heart as far as topics I’d like to continue to pursue. They somehow exposing these realities not just as national geographic images of something but somehow relate what the reality of living day to day for people as compared to how we live and the vast differences and what’s really important. Those and healthcare issues, AIDS or otherwise, those are the topics that I find empowering for me.
*(Women’s Equity in Access to Care and Treatment, a San Francisco-based global initiative that advocates for accelerated access to HIV drugs, services care for women and girls in resource-poor settings. WE-ACTx launched the Rwanda Women’s Treatment Access Initiative in April 2004, a public-private partnership program with the government and give widows, orphan and HIV-positive networks. The program has provided HIV treatment and care to over 1200 NGO members as of May 2005, and is opening another clinic in Kigali as new NGOs join the program. The program aims to assist genocide rape survivors.]

LS: Do you have health insurance?

ATR: No -- I haven’t for years! I just got it January 1st, through my girlfriend -- and then I found out I have diabetes. I don’t feel like it’s stable and I’m pissed off at how difficult it is to get. And how do I get it? I get it through a domestic partnership of a my immigrant girlfriend who is Brazilian citizen and is here on a sponsored work visa. Her company offers health benefits.

LS: How do you feel about media’s coverage of these issues?

ATR: The media covers tragedy and it’s [AIDS] no longer a tragedy; they aren’t seeing the faces of people dying here in the States, all around you. The tsunami has received how many billions of dollars? – more in 3 months than AIDS has received in 3 years -- that’s an extreme but you know … 6 million people die a year of AIDS. 250,000 died in the tsunami. It’s how things tug at the mass collective emotions I think.
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